Brake Lines

[qqelectriccar]

Hello

Once again asking for help, I promising ill be contributing as soon as I can

Anyway, my GT II need a new brake line from the master cylinder to the front left brake. I know how to splice in and replace the section thats bad, but seeing how crazy cheap parts are for these cars I 'm wondering is there some place I can buy that section that will thread right in?

Thanks
Karl

[Dan MacMillan]

If you are to splice then you obviously have a proper DOUBLE FLARING tool for standard lines. Not a cheap chinese flaring kit that only makes single flares. Single flaring is illegal on brake lines.

double flaring kit

Sectioning a line works but by the time you pay for the 2 fittings and the union you will have spent more than a new piece of brake line.

VW uses a BUBBLE FLARE

You cannot interchange them safely.
I own the tools for both as will most mechanics. All garages should have a BUBBLE FLARE KIT. Standard 3/16 brake line can be safely used with no problems. As the proper fittings are difficult to find, I always reuse the old ones. Many of the premade lines have fittings that are close but not right, they will damage the threads in the hoses and master. 3/16 line is cheap. I just picked up a 25 foot roll for $8 my cost. Reg retail is about $25.

Your best option is to get a roll, measure the line length you need. cut the new line using a tubing cutter, remove the fittings from the lines. If they are seized to the lines just cut the line and drill the line out of the fitting with a 3/16 drill bit.
Take the drilled fittings and the new lines to a local garage and ask them to install the fittings on the lines using a BUBBLE FLARE. Some places also loan/rent tools.

BUBBLE FLARING KIT

Another option is to use double flare to bubble flare adapters and standard 3/16 double flare lines, however the cost of adapters is expensive, it also double the chances for leaks.

[qqelectriccar]

Thanks for all the info. Ive redone the entire system this way on my truck, so Im looking for an easier way out here hehe

[topdude]

There are plenty of replacement brake line kits available with correct fittings, precut lengths and flairs that will work nicely. From Wolfsberg West to JC Whitney and many other places

[jspbtown]

Your local NAPA will have a variety of bubble flair pre-made brake lines that will work just fine.

[Dan MacMillan]

I once used one of those "premade" kits sold by CIP1. Never again. The lines were very hard and brittle. Shaping them was a nightmare and one even cracked when bending it. Like jspbtown said, your local parts supplier has an assortment. Just check the fittings carefully.

[smyrnaguy]

The local bug shop sells the line kits for 20$. You still have top shape them. The line you need is the shortest one. Shouldn't be more than $5 by itself.

[big bob]

NAPA. take old line/fitting to NAPA. use NAPA. they'll hook you up. NAPA.

[qqelectriccar]

Just though I'd update this. It turned out to be a brake line going to the back of the car, so I decided to splice in half way with a length I had on my shelf along with a bubble flared half from a parts store.

I only went to 2 auto parts stores, but when I asked for a bubble flare brake line or a tool they both looked at me and said "No, you mean DOUBLE flare." I ended up finding a brass adapter on one of the shelves that threaded into the master cylinder and made it accept the double flare. Then after that it was the usual brake line fun and now it's time to bleed!

Do I use DOT 3 or 4? And also, where can I find out how to take the brakes apart to inspect them? I saw some weird spring loaded pin or something with a c-clamp on it. I didn't want to mess with it at the time

[Dan MacMillan]

What parts places did you go to that are so clueless to bubble flares?
Were the adapters sold to you like this. CORRECT

or like this. INCORRECT


The top one is the correct design. As the guys at the store are clueless, they probably sold you ones like the lower picture, these are wrong. It makes a difference, make sure it is right.
Dot 3 is what you need. Dot 4 will work, but there is no need for it. Stay away from DOT 5, it is not compatible with what is in your system.

As for taking it apart.
1 buy a VW manual
2 make use of your camera, take before pictures
3 do one side at a time, pay attention to the shoe lining dimensions. There is a primary and secondary shoe on each wheel.

[don29163]

I got mine from CIP1, no problems and the fit fine.

[mwilson]

Since we are talking about brake lines, I have run into a snag. First, the long 86 inch brake line that runs from the front to the back has ruptured. Before anybody mentions it, I went to NAPA and they can't help me. Aside from ordering one from a catalog, I would also like to consider replacing with a much sturdier steel braided line. I looked and no one seems to make one that long. Now I assume I can buy two shorter lines and couple them together. Has anyone done that?

My next problem is I have upgraded to disc brakes and when doing the rears I noticed that one side has the grease catching washer that is in front of the grease seal enclosed in the bearing housing and the other side does not. I also noticed that the side without was leaking grease all over the place. Granted, the O ring was shot as well. NAPA does not have it, and most catalogs don't shew it as being available. The thrust washer would be a good substitute except it's not wide enough. Any ideas where I can get some replacements?

Thanks for your help.
Matt

[jspbtown]

Yes Matt, two shorter lines with a coupler will work just fine. Just get the right kind of coupler for the type of flare. And yes...the couplers are flare specific.

I am not following your last question. Does this seal kit look like it would have what your looking for?

www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-311-598-051

[mwilson]

Unfortunately not. Here's an exploded view of the part I am referring to.

www.appletreeauto.com/Swing-Axle-Rear.html

Seems like this is specific to a 67 swing axle. The washer in the kit you referred to is the thrust washer and that goes goes on first. This one is after the grease seal and in the bearing compartment. My concern is whether this will leak grease without one.

Thanks,

Matt

[jspbtown]

That I don't know. Might be a good Samba question.

[mwilson]

I tried junk yards and even a specialty VW junk yard in the Seattle area with no luck. I ended up calling a machinist friend to reproduce the "grease seal." I now own about 6 of them. So if anyone should need one...I can help you out.

Thanks,

[qqelectriccar]

I guess I should have posted an update on this

The second or third auto parts store I went to had a neat adapter that screwed right into the master cylinder allowing it to accept the standard double flare.

I told my mechanic the whole story and he showed me it's possible to make the bubble flare with a standard tool for making double flares. I don't remember exactly what he did, but it was pretty simple and it made a perfect flare that looked just like the one that came off of the car.

[mwilson]

I just replaced all my brake lines with steel braided lines, adapters and couplers from JEGs. All were bubble flared. Install was very easy. Yes, it was expensive but compared to what was there before, priceless.

[Dan MacMillan]

Apr 27, 2011 19:44:17 GMT -5 qqelectriccar said:

I guess I should have posted an update on this

The second or third auto parts store I went to had a neat adapter that screwed right into the master cylinder allowing it to accept the standard double flare.

I told my mechanic the whole story and he showed me it's possible to make the bubble flare with a standard tool for making double flares. I don't remember exactly what he did, but it was pretty simple and it made a perfect flare that looked just like the one that came off of the car.

READ MY FIRST POST. Look at the pics. The first stage of a double flare creates a 45 deg flare on the back side where the nut contacts the flare and the wrong angle on the bubble. It is not the same. Different shape, different angles. I would be leary of any mechanic that does not know the difference. Especially one that tells the general public that they are the same. That mechanic should educate himself and buy the proper tool, instead of being cheap and risking harm to his customers.

[qqelectriccar]

Neither of us claimed the first step to producing a double flare made a bubble flare. If I remember correctly(don't quote me)he took a fresh cut segment of line and compressed it with the double flaring tool.

[Dan MacMillan]

Apr 30, 2011 19:23:00 GMT -5 qqelectriccar said:

Neither of us claimed the first step to producing a double flare made a bubble flare. If I remember correctly(don't quote me)he took a fresh cut segment of line and compressed it with the double flaring tool.

You may have not claimed that the FIRST STEP made the bubble, but that is the only way to create something that resembles a bubble using a double flaring tool.

You did say that
1 your mechanic showed you how to make a bubble with double flaring tools.
2 it made a perfect flare that looked just like the one that came off of the car.

Just the fact that he told you and showed you, tells me that he has probably done this quite often. Why would he give you this false information if he has the proper tools to do it right.

I am sorry if I have offended you but the safety of others who read this thread is more important than any one's feelings.

Either way, my statement remains unchanged.

If you follow thesamba at all, you will notice that myself and a few others look out for major errors in mechanical/electrical repair and the safety of others. We do this to help and protect future reader's.
There are some people out there who claim to be mechanics that have never been trained and do not have the experience of doing it the right way. Some of our discussions get very heated and long with us posting data, images and facts to backup and prove our statements.

My qualifications speak for themselves. I have over 33 years of non stop experience in these trades.
Licensed Automotive Service Technician
Licensed Truck and Coach Technician
Licensed Heavy Duty Equipment Technician
CFC/HCFC/HFC A/C handling and installation license
Alignment specialist
SMAW 4 position

[Dan MacMillan]

Apr 27, 2011 22:02:38 GMT -5 mwilson said:

I just replaced all my brake lines with steel braided lines, adapters and couplers from JEGs. All were bubble flared. Install was very easy. Yes, it was expensive but compared to what was there before, priceless.

I was just at Jegs looking to see these steel braided lines that could be used in place of hard brake line but could only find some flex hoses and trans lines.. What product did you use?

I did notice they sell teflon hose with the following description

JEGS PTFE (Teflon®) lined hose is for use on brake lines, clutch lines, mechanical gauges, power steering and other applications that require high pressure. The steel hose ends feature a miniature brass "olive" (or ferrule) which retains the fitting inside the hose and must be used with PTFE hose.

This product, while quick and convenient, is ILLEGAL FOR STREET in Canada and probably all US states.

I did not see where JEGS posted this information for their customers.

[mwilson]

Well, looks like I put a lot of $$ into something that's "not intended for street use." So far, they seem to be working quite well.